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Sunday, January 25, 2004

Sorry, folks

We just voted on Measure 30.

We voted no.

Our property taxes have gone up by 8.89 percent in the past year.

We live in Multnomah County. Our state and local income taxes have already gone up by 13.89 percent during the same period.

If state and local governments can't make things work with that much new revenue from our household, then there really is something wrong with them. To give them more money is not the solution.

Comments (21)

So, generous when people visit the blog, but not with the ballot measure? I guess our two votes cancelled yours. I guess that's democracy.

Yep. You must be made out of money. 8c)

Let the cuts begin!!!
I bet you'll be sending your kids to private school.

Yeah and L & C pays _your_ health insurance, so we don't need the Oregon Health Plan.

Aren't you Catholic?


Here's another view on Measure 30:

Oregon Catholic Conference Supports Measure 30

Measure 30: A Bipartisan, Balanced Budget for the Common Good

Poor, weak and vulnerable Oregonians have a special call on our compassion. Oregonís revenue debate is not merely about the numbers of financing state government. This debate is about the morality of state public policy. Caring for the most vulnerable persons in our midst, particularly poor women, children, elderly and disabled persons, and funding education are moral issues of the common good. As part of Oregonís bipartisan, balanced budget, Measure 30 provides resources for social services for vulnerable persons and education for children.

Churches and Charities Provide Social Services But Cannot Replace Government

Oregonís churches and charities are partners with government in meeting peoplesí needs. Through our schools, hospitals, nursing homes, dining halls, food pantries and clothes closets, churches and charities address the unmet needs of our fellow Oregonians. During this difficult time in the economy, we see firsthand and have compassion for the growing number of people in need. Churches and charities, however, cannot replace the services provided through government. It is not the mission of churches or charities to replace government, nor do we seek to do so. We can and do supplement what government does to aid and care for our fellow Oregonians regardless of a personís faith.

Measure 30 Supports Stability in the Social Services Safety Net

During the past three years, the Oregon Catholic Conference, together with the interfaith community, has advocated maintaining the safety net of social services for people in need. After the longest legislative session in Oregonís history, let us support state fiscal stability contained in the bipartisan, balanced budget. Let us remember the common good for Oregon and our responsibility for our fellow Oregonians.

The Oregon Catholic Conference Urges a ďYESĒ Vote on Measure 30.


I agree, it's time to stop sending good money after bad. Even when the state's coffers were flush "the sky was falling" and it still is "the sky is falling". It's time to realize that there is a fundamental problem with state government and it is not a lack of coin.

Agreeing with Jyah13 and BoJack here. I voted no, and condemn me to hell, if you wish, but you know what? I'd give the government my money if I truely believe that they were spending it wisely. I'm all for giving TEACHERS money, but not lining the pockets of the over-abundance of administration. I'm all for giving low-income type of plans (OHP, for example) money, if there wasn't so much waste in the organization as a whole. I'd be all for giving money to the state police, etc... if I actually trusted them with our money (after seeing a local police chief take thousands from Deschutes county, you can understand my gripe).

I'm already struggling to pay my medical bills, since I can't get on ANY sort of health plan, even a state funded one, and the last thing I need is to see more of my paycheck go to something other than my bills.

I'd vote yes if I truly believed that the money was going to the people who deserved it -- The 5 or 6 inept secrataries at my local high school don't, but the teachers I work with there do.

oh so confused...I just don't know what to vote! I'd been leaning 'no' because we just got that county tax because the rest of the state has already no-taxed us into oblivion...beyond the poor management. And with our county tax it stays local at least. But then there are much-needed services that will hopefully paid for. Throughout the state. But then my property taxes have gone up significantly -again- and I've only had the place for 2 years! But they might refund part of the Multnomah tax if we pass the state tax, I was told that by passing the state tax we might even pay less! For more. That seems unlikely though.

-- Perplexed in Puddletown

You know, the legislature finally did their job. They had the bipartisan political will to raise additional revenue to support schools, OHP, etc., and the result is the anti-tax, Mannix-led Republican party succeeded in undermining the hard work of the legislature by referring the measure to the voters. All those moderate Republican legislators that, if my memory serves me, you JACK praised for their moderation and effectiveness are entirely undercut by your vote against Measure 30. My children's school will probably be ok since we have the Multnomah County tax that will keep drastic cuts from occurring, but an anti-30 vote says to hell with the rest of the state and to those who need mental health care, etc, etc.

I don't like paying taxes any more than anyone, but I recognize that all those government services that I take advantage of daily aren't free. Then there are those services that I will never take advantage of, but are just as vital as those that help me directly.

Voting No on Measure 30 gives a major boost to Kevin Mannix and the right-wing of the Republican Party. Moderation requires a Yes vote on M30.

State and local governments spend so much money on cr*p. Look at the Portland Streetcar. Look at the Oregon Convention Center. Look at PGE Park. Look at the tax-subsidized Pearl District, and the great boondoggle-to-come of them all, South Waterfront.

All of that public money -- nine figures -- could have been spent on feeding the hungry, caring for sick people, better schools, adequate policing. But it wasn't.

Sorry, folks. I'm tapped. Stop building Homer Williams Theme Parks; then let's talk more taxes.

Nice post, TimC.

When are we going to trust the people that we elect into office to do good things for our state? A bipartisan group passed this tax increase, after spending months debating different solutions. The average voter is going to spend minutes thinking about this, and will be deceptively informed by both sides (via media soundbites). What's the point of having a legislature if we just have referendums on everything that they do?

Our schools and health care system need this money. Oregon's tax burden is not high, our schools are not funded at a level commensurate with other states. If we want Oregon to remain a great place to live, we need to start paying for it.

Wow, talk about a change of heart:

"Taxes blow, but a replay of the budget fiasco that cost this poor fellow his life would be a lot worse."

"It's fine with me -- I'm good for another few hundred bucks a year, I guess -- but there'll be howling in the hinterlands of the state tonight."

"Although I applaud the Legislature for doing the right thing, it's probably an illusion. The repeal is likely to pass, and if it does, the public schools, the courts, and other government bodies around the state are going to be in the exact same bad, bad, bad spot next spring as they were this past spring."

Do those quotes sounds familiar? That's you Jack, after the legislature passed the revenue package. I agree that Portland's City Council is out of control - let's change the council starting this spring, but punishing our schools and poor does nothing to change that. It only rewards Mannix and his crowd.

I voted for Measure 28. I voted for the county income tax. I'm paying the new county tax, which for me is well over $1,000 a year. I'm not b*tching about any of that.

But there's got to be some limit. I'm not paying even more, especially since most if not all of the new money would go outside Multnomah County, to pay for services in other parts of the state where the Kevin Mannixes of the world rule supreme.

Voting no will not punish anyone in any schools in Multnomah County. If it means cuts in health care for the poor, let the county and city shift some resources from aerial tram development and other spendy "urban renewal."

As for the rest of the state -- particularly the 'burbs like Lake Oswego, Tigard and Hillsboro, who ought to know better -- they hate taxes so much, let them live without them.

No, no, 1,000 times no.

I was under the impression that if you live in Multnomah County you would not be doubly taxed. Measure 30 is basically to duplicate the school tax from last year, but around the whole state. Correct me if I am wrong.

The state measure increases income taxes by around 0.5 - 0.8 percent of income.

Multnomah County says it will give back some of that, but even the most optimistic estimates are only around 0.25 percent of income.

So no matter whether this passes or not, Multnomah County is still going to get and keep at least 1.0 percent of income with its local tax. And if the measure passes, the state will collect another 0.5 percent.

So for Multnomah County residents, it's really a choice whether to increase state and local income taxes from 10.25 percent of income to around 10.5 percent of income.

At this time last year, and for many years prior, the state income tax was 9.0 percent of income, and there was no local income tax. To me, jacking the combined rate up to 10.25 percent (which we already did) was quite enough, thanks.

Multnomah county is covered, so screw the rest of Oregon. Let the Republican counties come up with their own local tax. Hahahaha! What with the future of ranching and all, Morrow and Polk county don't need learnt anyhow. Yee-Haw!

Hey, Measure 30 will go down in flames in all those counties. I guess we smarter, superior folks in Portland should tell those folks what's good for them, eh?

Seriously. Wait till the vote breaks down, and then see if what happened was Portland screwing the tax-happy outstate counties.

I don't live there anymore, but in principle, I'm with Jack on one thing -- there's nothing irresponsible about saying to your government, "If you want additional revenue, you have to make a case that you need it (meaning you are already spending carefully and cannot meet needs) and that if you get it, you will spend it carefully and wisely." If you don't get that reassurance, giving them money doesn't necessarily accomplish . . . well, Jack.

Read this letter in today's Oregonian:
NICK JOHNSON Director, State Fiscal Project Center on Budget and Policy Priorities Washington, D.C., says, "U.S. Census Bureau data show that in 2000, the latest year for which data are available, per-capita state and local taxes in Oregon were 11 percent lower than the national average."

Licensing of cars is what -- $30?
No property tax on anything other than homes. Right?
No sales tax!
We have it easy compared to the other states where I've lived.

If Oregon is such a low-tax state, then we can catch up. But gradually, please. A 9 percent increase in a single year on property tax and a 14 percent boost in a single year on income tax is enough for right now. Especially when you look at the junk that the politicians spend it on in Portland.

Welcome to the dark side, Jack.

Actually I can understand your vote given the record of Oregon politicians of both parties on spending the taxpayers money.

The problem with voting for this measure is that if you do, you have to vote for the next one and the next one and the next one....

Supporters of Measure 30 tell us that the sky will fall if it doesn't pass. Maybe it will. But it has got to happen sooner or later, this unrestrained spending cannot continue. There is not only the expensive toys that Vera has collected, but mismanagement throughout the government.

My sister works at OSU and told me that last year when they were having to lay people off, the administration hired some "counselor" for over $100K to help those laid off deal with the trauma. The newly unemployed really felt great visiting this lady who made two or three times what they did for counseling.

Both people and the government are going to have to decide what is important and fund those things. The rest are probably nice to have, but so is a Lexus. I don't have one of those because I can't afford it and if we can't afford these extras, we will have to do without.


Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Sorry, folks:

» Measure 30 from AboutItAll.com | Oregon
So here we are. In the midst of a very important election - determining if we will fund schools & social services for Oregonians. You'd think that in such an election the gov would have something to say. But as far as I can tell, Ted is AWOL in... [Read More]

» Tuesday Is D-Day For Poor Oregonians from Chuck Currie
If recent history is any indicator than the special election this coming Tuesday in Oregon will end with the defeat of Measure 30. Health care programs will be cut, schools will loose programs, policing programs will suffer, and the first [Read More]

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