I agree that Edward is done. Where I disagree with you is whether Edwards was ever a legitimate contender.

I think he was doomed from the start because he was inauthentic. He tried to occupy a place in the Democrat candidate spectrum - the populist, anti-corporate Ralph Nader guy. It wasn't believable.

In the end, he got squeezed between the inspirational candidate and the machine candidate. No room for a phony populist.

Thanks, Rob, for another uplifting, positive comment.

John Edwards would have kicked the a*s of any of the right-wing loonies you would have put up against him.

I wonder what impact Mayor Bloomberg will have on next November's presidential election if he should enter the race as an independent. Which of the two party candidates does he hurt more? Dems or Republicans? I myself am rooting for Romney, and don't see a whole lot of difference between crusty McCain or princess Clinton. In fact, I think McCain might be more inclined to start wars than the princess.

Wonder if Al Gore might enter the race if Bloomberg does. This could get crazy even after Fed 5 super Tuesday. Heck, its crazy now.

Hillary Clinton offers democrats the best chance to lose.

McCain offers Republicans the best chance to win.

Democrats will do what they do best, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Yup!

Anybody But Clinton!

Demo's are giving it away. The neocons can do anything now!

I love the "phony populist" attack. Nowadays only rich people can run for President. And so if any candidate dares to be a populist, he or she is a "hypocrite."

As an Edwards supporter, I'm hoping he finds a way to stay in. Nevada was a weird caucus state. If he can manage to get his usual 15% in most other states, he will prevent Hillary from winning a majority of the delegates and then he'll have a powerful role at the convention.

Given what he's going through in his personal life, I'm not sure that's worth it. Hillary and Obama are both headed for a fall.

We've had a man with a southern accent in the White House for the last 19 years (longer if you consider Bush Sr.'s years as VP). Edwards doesn't feel like change the same way Hilary and Obama do, whether they represent it or not.

The last seven years, that's no southern accent. That's a drug-addled slur.

If Hillary Clinton feels like change to you, you need to adjust your medication.

Jack- You've totally missed the boat on this one. Rob has it absolutely nailed. Absolutely. The Edwards disingenuous "two Americas" routine is so negative and false and tired. Did you ever really think that could be a winner? How would he ever govern if he were elected after running with that routine? And, as Rob accurately states, its totally "inauthentic." Any of the 5 R's who are still in the chase would have totally annihilated Edwards in the general election if he continued with his current Ralph Nadar line of anti-capitalist rhetoric. Personally, he is impressive and has potential and could have made a legitimate case, but the tired, narrow, demagogic trial lawyer routine is not a winning strategy.

Incidentally, its especially funny - you criticizing Rob for an "uplifting, positive comment" - as if his comments are just like all of yours?

Hmm. I figure if he was such an amazing candidate, more people would have voted for him. Heck, in 2004 his only primary wins were North and South Carolina, and he's oh-fer this year. To me, the results of real elections held after campaigns have been run say a lot more than fantastical opinion polls.

There are many different kinds of "rich" people. Some "earn" their wealth through what many would consider less than honorable ways - ne'er-do-well inheritance, the entertainment industry, etc. Ambulance-chasing Trial Lawyer is one of those. Dumping all "rich" people in with these kinds of folks identifies a disconnect with reality. John Edwards (and for many years most Democrat candidates for public office) hold this mistaken idea. Most "rich" people aren't even public figures. They work hard, live simply, don't flaunt their wealth and are tax-paying, law-abiding Americans you wouldn't look at twice on the street. They don't feel any need for the ego-gratification of running for President.

This thread is good for me. Every now and then I need to see that many of my readers really don't have a clue what is going on in this country or the world.

"Most "rich" people aren't even public figures. They work hard, live simply, don't flaunt their wealth and are tax-paying, law-abiding Americans you wouldn't look at twice on the street."

John, you're putting a lump in my throat with your moving verbal ode to the unsung heroes who toil valiantly as executive officers in the insurance, pharmaceutical and defense contractor industries.

These noble souls selflessly pocket their billion and million dollar bonuses earned on the blood of the lower classes in the shadows, without glory or recognition, deriving their only solace from their overflowing bank accounts.

Whether with bait-and-switch "good neighbor" insurance practices, untested deadly pharmaceuticals, or chemical weapons that will bring birth defects and cancer to the Iraqi people for generations, all of these honorable, high-profiting mass murderers spend millions marketing goodwill toward their corporate brands (e.g. State Farm, Merck, and GE) to ensure that the dirty little men pulling the strings behind the curtains are filthy rich, yet remain anonymous, people you "wouldn't look twice at them on the street."

These anonymous bastards earned their wealth through what their victims would consider "less than honorable ways."

Good thing their victims don't count.

By the way, don't count Edwards out yet. There are still 46 states left to go.

Nah. If he can't win Iowa or Nevada, he's done. I'm sure he'll run out of money quite soon.

he will prevent Hillary from winning a majority of the delegates and then he'll have a powerful role at the convention.

The dream of the brokered convention. It ain't happening. Denver 2008 will be the Hillary coronation and it makes me ill just thinking about it.

President McCain will be inaugurated a year from tomorrow. Between pissed off Democrats and the backlash he'll surely get from his own party as they regroup, I don't envy him.

Jack If it comes down to St Hillary and McCain I'm holding a ballot burning party. No matter what they say, I see them both as equally damaging to the USA.

"Did you ever really think that could be a winner?"

The polls did. Poll after poll after poll showed Edwards, and only Edwards, beating every possible GOP candidate, and by a wider margin than either Clinton or Obama.

But -- wonder of wonders -- these polls are the only polls the chatterers of the nation's political press corps ignored again and again and again.

Can't he hang on until the SC primary? I haven't checked lately, but how's he doing in the delegate count?

Either way, for a candidate who was on the ticket in 2004 he should be doing better. Maybe because Kerry & he lost then has stained this campaign?

Anyway, if Edwards is out, I bet the GOP wins. I like Obama. I won't vote for Hilary (I didn't even like Bill that much).

Maybe this when the cavalry (led by Michael Bloomberg) rides in and saves us?

I'm not so sure McCain gets the nomination. He's not very popular with the base, and he doesn't have much money. As long as Romney continues to finance his own campaign, I think Romney can win it.

And if it's Clinton v. Romney. Look for Bloomberg to enter the race as a third party contestant.

Edwards hasn't been doing himself any favors by accurately articulating the character and scope of the challenges this country faces. Like the last presidential election, that vast majority of people that don't understand anything will be playing an incredibly important role. Perhaps he should have spent more time falling off his bicycle and speaking in short, belligerent sentences. If the fanatical vandalism of the Bush years can't inspire people to take action, then we deserve four more years of whatever.

We get the candidates and the president we deserve. Sad, but true.

On a morelocal note, and one which we can all play, I went to Dozono's HQ Friday afternoon about 3:00 PM and signed his public financing papers and left a $5.00 chck.

Th place was surpisingly busy for a late Friday afternoon. SW Third and Stark in a 6th follr office, lousy parking (No, I don't do MAX), and I had to wait in line to sign the forms. About 6 folks there

I picked up 10 sets forneighbors, too, after he staff gave a little class in form fill out poceedures.

I get the feeling that theres a LOT of ati Adams feeling out there; that getting 1500 signatures for Dozono
is not going o be hard; and that life for Sam the Tram is going to get real interesting.

I need to do the same exercise next week for the counil candidates other than Harold Stassen.

ABA

Anybody but Adams.

Anybody but Amanda

This thread is good for me. Every now and then I need to see that many of my readers really don't have a clue what is going on in this country or the world.

VERY NICE!

"If the fanatical vandalism of the Bush years can't inspire people to take action, then we deserve four more years of whatever..."

I'll second that...

I just noticed that its literally a year from today that he Bsh Cheney administration ends,

Are we at the point now in the degeneration of our system of politics and government where it is just not possible to elect someone honest and competent to high public office?

I don't care much for Hilary, and I'd like to see our country elect someone who is not a Bush or a Clinton, in name or in deed, for a change. However, I do think Hilary would make a decent president as long as you can ignore the past and future scandals. Bill's policies eliminated the federal deficit and kept us out of wars. I'd expect Hilary to be able to duplicate these achievements with a Democratic Congress.

I won't vote for Hillary and I can't vote for McCain, so what am I left with?

I won't vote for Hillary and I can't vote for McCain, so what am I left with?

You might consider doing what I have done in every presidential election since I became eligible to vote (that goes back to 1964): vote against one of them.

Borat says:

If you vote for him he will make sure you and your family have a good years. If you do not... you'll be sorry.

IT'S nice?

Greg,

The talk of "two Americas" resonated with me because it's true. Attacking the messenger as "inauthentic" as you and Rob did doesn't change the fact that the message was authentic and resonates with many Americans who have lived it and are living it.

What people like you and Rob would have us believe is that a coin can only have one side.

The reality is that Edwards' message about "two Americas" was and is a backlash. If that's tantamount to classism then by definition everything that it's backlashing against is equally classist. Every coin has two sides, whether you want to admit it or not.

Many of us are tired of being spoonfed classist claptrap by the Right and having our intelligence insulted with the insinuation or assertion that it's not classism.

Mike sez: "I won't vote for Hillary and I can't vote for McCain, so what am I left with?"

Allan counters: 'You might consider doing what I have done in every presidential election since I became eligible to vote (that goes back to 1964): vote against one of them.'
-----------

What about the Indy? I am a NAV, and been voting Indy since John Anderson. And Big Ears. And I even Ralphed once, but he left a bad after-taste.

Don't be a negative ninny like Allan, your future may Bloom again

Harry, only jackasses stoop to name calling.

John Edwards would have kicked the a*s of any of the right-wing loonies you would have put up against him.

Seems he apparently can't even beat the left-wing loonies.

Bill's policies eliminated the federal deficit and kept us out of wars.

Kept us out of wars? Hear of Bosnia? Now, if there was a war we didnt have any business in, that was it. But nobody bitched then because they liked the guy in office.
And the only reason he had a budget surplus was because he didnt pay the bills.

Yes, let us now remember in somber gratitude the many thousands of US soldiers who gave their lives in Bosnia, even as we recognize that our war on Iraq is unpopular only because we hate George Bush, and that our skyrocketing national debt is the fault of that deadbeat, Bill Clinton. Brilliant.

I'm just going to go slit my wrists now. McCain or Hillary Clinton? I'd rather die.

as we recognize that our war on Iraq is unpopular only because we hate George Bush,

Sorry, but I think there is some truth to that with a lot of people.

and that our skyrocketing national debt is the fault of that deadbeat, Bill Clinton.

Never said that, did I? But giving Clinton credit for a "surplus" is misguided at best.
And there is no doubt that spending is out of control with the Bush administration.

Yes, let us now remember in somber gratitude the many thousands of US soldiers who gave their lives in Bosnia

Oh, and check your facts, there were no American casualties in Bosnia.

Edwards candidacy was doomed as soon as Obama became a viable alternative to Clinton.
In the year when there is a good viable black candidate and a good viable female candidate, Edwards unfortunately doesn't stand a chance in the Demo primary. Regardless of the fact that this policies are the most progressive, and the perception that he "wins" or "does well" in the debates. I can't see many demo women or many demo minorities voting for the white southerner. And in the Demo identity politics as practiced today, I can't see a lot of white demo voters NOT voting for one of the two historic candidates.

Edwards seems like the obvious choice for AG in Obama's cabinet. Clinton is not inevitable. Not if you turn hope into action and support an alternative for change. Obama gives a stirring sermon at Dr. King's former church in Atlanta. Take a few minutes and view Obama at Ebenezer Baptist Church yesterday.(youtube) It not only inspires, but more importantly inspires to action. "unity does not come on the cheap, you must earn it with hard work and struggle" (my recollection) Invigorated my sense of hope for the possible rather than disappointment in the probable. Can't think of a better way to honor the spirit of Dr. King.

"Oh, and check your facts, there were no American casualties in Bosnia."

Hilarious, Jon! You are totally immune to sarcasm.

You are right: there were no casualties in Bosnia. So your point is what ... Clinton's failure to lose a single American life in Bosnia was a sign of incompetence?

True, George W. is much more competent at getting a lot of Americans killed in foreign entanglements. As a psychopathic right-winger, this may indeed be how you define competence.

"And the only reason he had a budget surplus was because he didnt pay the bills."

What? What "bills" are you talking about? Do you mean the no-bid Halliburton contract "bills"? You mean Clinton, unlike George W., didn't give our treasury away to mercenaries and private contractors?

You're right, what an irresponsible spendthrift!

Oh what Ralph Nader has wrought. We should be discussing the slate of interesting, qualified democratic candidates competing to take the reins from President Gore, planning the use of our ongoing national surplus, and celebrating our position as a world leader in the battle to harness global warming. Bin Laden-caught and tried since our military resources were applied to pursue the actual perpetrators of 9/11. Iraq-still a hot spot and source of consternation, but not one U.S. casualty because no ill conceived invasion occurred and our treasury is a trillion dollars to the plus side because of it. Instead, we're gagging on Hillary and wincing as McCain inexorably edges closer to the White House. Not to say that Jeb Bush and the Supreme Court don't deserve a good flogging for their cynical turns in the travesty. But Nader(smarter and more well meaning) knew enough to get out of the way and didn't. When you muzzle the nausea and mark your electorally meaningless Oregon ballot for Hillary in November, don't forget who laid the groundwork.

The Obama speech in Atlanta is available via BlueOregon at

http://www.blueoregon.com/2008/01/obama-at-ebenez.html

Hilarious, Jon! You are totally immune to sarcasm.

Sam, you should cut Jon a little slack. He was probably concentrated on cleaning his weapon.

Jack

The polling numbers do not agree with you. go to pollingreport.com.

The *only* Republican candidate who comes even close to Obama or Clinton in the trial heat polls is McCain--I will give you that. But most polls show it a dead heat or a point or two in favor of McCain.

A generic Democratic presidential candidate beats a generic Republican candidate by between 10-20%, depending on the polling organization.

And finally, this is a primary, not a general. There is a side of John McCain that the national public has not seen yet--the one who scores among the two or three most conservative members of the Senate. The "straight talk" express / independent John McCain has been a nice showpiece for the primaries, but just let's wait until that is taken apart in a general.

What? What "bills" are you talking about? Do you mean the no-bid Halliburton contract "bills"? You mean Clinton, unlike George W., didn't give our treasury away to mercenaries and private contractors?

No, I mean there was an excess in taxes paid by you and I, and they kept it aside and called it a "surplus" instead of using it to pay down the national debt. So while he claimed to have a "surplus" of $4 Trillion or whatever it was, there was still a national debt of something like $6 Trillion. I dunno about you, but if I could pay down 2/3 of my debt, I would.

As for "giving away our treasury"...the Clinton administration did too...to the Chinese. I would rather the mercenaries had it.