Have you seen this new ad yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOSu9bY1VQ0&eurl

Thanks Jack

As with any crime, and high crimes moreso, it is not finished when and by deciding 'there has been enough' and at that point, arresting the criminal.

To establish Justice there is to be follow-through in the enacted procedures requisite of indictment, arraignment, standing trial facing adversaries, conviction, sentencing so ruled and serving sentence.

While Justice is not established for others, it is not established for you nor me.

Why We're Planning To Prosecute Cheney And Bush - Attorneys, academics, and activists to gather in Andover, Mass., by David Swanson, Global Research, September 7, 2008

Next weekend in Andover, Mass., a group of attorneys, academics, and activists will gather to plan the prosecution of Dick Cheney, George Bush, and the lawyers and advisors who, together with them, are responsible for war crimes. The conference is open to the public and expected to be well attended: http://war-crimes. info

I can't speak for everyone involved, but I can tell you why I'll be there. If I thought we could deter future presidents and vice-presidents from abusing power by giving Cheney and Bush immunity for life, billion dollar pensions, and royal crowns, then that is exactly what I would propose we do. In fact, if there were just about anything that we could do that I thought would have that deterrent effect, I would advocate for it. I would give my life for it.

I'm adamantly opposed to the possibility of imposing the death penalty on anyone, no matter what they are convicted of, because it has been shown to encourage violence rather than to deter it. Future presidents are not more likely to refrain from abusing power if they might be executed than if they might be imprisoned for life. If they are imprisoned for life, they can express their regrets in ways that their successors can understand. If they are killed, we will be the ones killing them, and we will thereby send a message to everyone that violence and vengeance are appropriate and admirable. Vengeance disgusts me. Bush and Cheney bore me. What interests me and inflames me is the desire to establish the rule of law, not for its own sake but in order to promote peace, fairness, human rights, and human survival.

In a December 31, 2007, editorial, the New York Times faulted the current president and vice president of the United States for kidnapping innocent people, denying justice to prisoners, torturing, murdering, circumventing U.S. and international law, spying in violation of the Fourth Amendment, and basing their actions on 'imperial fantasies.'

If the editorial had been about Bush and Cheney robbing a liquor store or killing a small number of people or robbing a small amount of money or torturing a single child, then the writers at the New York Times would have demanded immediate prosecution and incarceration. Can you guess what they actually demanded? They demanded that we sit back and hope the next president and vice president will be better. Well, what if they are? ... But how does that fact deter future crimes?

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We can also work at the local level to follow the example of Brattleboro,Vt., passing ordinances making it the law that if Bush, Cheney, or key co-conspirators [n.b.: e.g., LIARS] enter our towns they will be arrested.

And we can make citizens arrests all on our own right now: After Downing Street.ORG/citizenarrest

JudgeWilliam Price in Iowa in July heard the case of people who had been arrested for trying to make a citizens' arrest of Karl Rove. When told what they were charged with, the judge remarked "Well, it's about time!"

And it's about time we put together a serious plan to establish the rule of law at home and abroad.

I'll see you in Andover next weekend.

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There is never "enough" Justice and never a decided moment to 'say when' and cap it at that.

What there is to decide is when you are going to step up and take your sharing part in it.

To answer your question Jack: eight years ago.

Thanks Jack, a fine post that is right on.

That second link rightly is http://war-crimes.info